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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Oct 26, 2012 11:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: "Early show " attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

Listening to the great 10/3070 Charlie Miller transfer, I wondered if you only got to see the "early" portion, would you have felt ripped off if you found out what they did (heard the tapes at a latter day?) on the "late" show ? And this goes for all those 2 show dates .
I would have been happy to get the "Viola>Cumberland,...but... "Cryptical>Other One>Crypt.>Cosmic Charlie, St. Stephen etc.. fuck a duck !
I guess did you have to buy a ticket for both shows, was there a 2 show discount ? Did you have to choose ?
http://archive.org/details/gd1970-10-30.121126.sbd.deluca.digitalrbb.miller.flac16

This post was modified by Dudley Dead on 2012-10-26 18:09:58

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 26, 2012 12:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

Damn right they felt ripped off.
Check out the banter before Casey Jones on 10/30/70 -
Phil: "This is gonna have to be our last song due to considerations of time-"
[crowd complains]
Garcia: "Yeah yeah, it's a bummer, but you know, it's the first show, man! How often do we have to go through this shit?"
Phil: "Once the people who're here for the second show get in, then if there's any room left, you people can all show your ticket stubs and come on back in."
Weir: "So what you gotta do, as soon as we get done, as soon as you hear our last note, you gotta all pick up and split real quick, and you gotta hang out outside, and then everybody else can come back and you can come back..."

It sounds like the band's being disingenuous here just to get the crowd off their backs - you did have to buy a ticket for each show:
http://www.psilo.com/dead/showlist.php?band=1&;year=1970 (shows tickets for 10/30 late & 10/31 early)
In this case, students got in for $1.00, the public for $4.00, since it was a university show.

A Variety review of the 5/15/70 "Evening with the Dead" show wrote:
"The unusual booking was prompted by the loyalty the Dead inspire from its followers and the knowledge that the band is most alive when there is no time limit placed upon its set. By devoting an entire evening to the Dead, Graham was able to solve a problem the Dead had presented in the past. Since the normal Fillmore bill includes three acts, the majority of Dead fans have refrained from attending the early show where the band was limited to an hour set, resulting in sellouts for the late shows, but less than capacity for the first show."
5/15/70 was the last time the Dead played an early & late show at the Fillmore. The Dead seem to have expected that people would attend both shows though, not repeating songs.
But yeah, people who attended early shows quickly noticed that the early shows were cut short, while the late shows could go til dawn... So no one in their right minds would just attend the early show (unless they couldn't stay out late).
And keep in mind, being Dead fans, they had many ways of attending shows for free too. 1970 was a big year for break-ins and bomb threats (where the theater would be cleared, then everybody came back in, ticket or no ticket).

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2012-10-26 19:09:38

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Oct 26, 2012 2:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

I can just imagine someone telling some more experienced fan " Yeah I saw The Dead, Man . They were great ". " Which show did you see" ? "Oh, I had to work the next day, so I bought the early ticket" (muffled snickers, and knowing looks form the other "experienced" fans, the word "chump" is faintly heard bantered about ...

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 26, 2012 6:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

Just imagine those poor people who went to, say, the 2/11 or 2/13 early shows - those Fillmore early shows were only an hour long - and then got to hear about the late shows they missed.
The kids at SUNY might not have known better, but I think Fillmore East heads eventually wised up. Over there, no matter how long the Dead played, it wasn't long enough...

From a 1971 interview:

BROMBERG: The amazing thing is that you're on stage for five or six hours, and when you finish, the people still yell for more.

GARCIA: I know. That's the part that drives me up a wall. I mean, if they really wanted me to be out front and go out and slice my jugular vein and die on the stage, I'll do it -- for a price! But I ain't gonna do it every night!

BROMBERG: They'll stand there and cheer until their lungs break.

GARCIA: I know, it's crazy.

BROMBERG: It seems as if they're not satisfied until you collapse on stage, because as long as you're still standing they feel they're entitled to more. They demand exhaustion.

GARCIA: Well, I don't mind that. The thing that I mind is that after doing six hours somebody comes up to us and says, "What a burn, you didn't play Alligator," or something like that. That's the shit that makes me really crazy. That's when I want to kill.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Oct 27, 2012 9:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

Just imagine going to those early shows. I did. And they were great--not like the second sets, but better than many shows--even from that era. The "early" Fillmore shows were also held partially to accommodate the overflow from the late shows.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Oct 26, 2012 6:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

I attended both nights. The "shows" were more like sets, as there wasn't much by way of ticket checking. The issue was the sound crew. The college kids insisted on working with their own P.A., and the band was pissed as hell (just ask Pig Pen). Still, there were moments of glory, and a good time was had by all but the guys on the stage. This kinda ended the college produced shows, as the practice of having the students run the works was not all that uncommon. Some colleges (mine for example) had good systems and people who knew how to use them--and to cooperate with the bands. Some, obviously, did not.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 26, 2012 6:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

Yeah, that 10/31/70 late show could be the worst show of the year. It's almost painful to hear sometimes.

When the Dead toured more colleges in April '71, they made sure to bring their own sound system. (In October '70, they didn't - probably couldn't afford it yet.)

I figured the SUNY staff might let people back in, just being a bunch of students themselves, but I assume at the Fillmore, Bill Graham wouldn't stand for early-show people sneaking back in for the late show... I don't know how loose the Capitol was about that.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Oct 27, 2012 5:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

Of all the shows I saw between 1967 and 1972 (and that was quite a large number--ironically, the Cincinnati show below was one of my last), these shows were about the worst I attended. There wasn't really much control. The second shows WERE over crowded with first set folks who blended back in for the second. As to earlier shows, the "sets" were a little more equal as they often alternated a TOO suite and a DS suite in each set. And there was a sense that if you came for the first show, you just wanted to hear some hippie music. For the band, they were warm ups. Second sets were for Deadheads (who usually went to both shows anyway.)

But I feel that another reason the Dead played short first sets this time was due to their anger at the sound. Get off the stage and hope their crew could try to make things more righteous. Weren't these close to the last two show evenings?

The Capitol was as tight as the Fillmore. Promoters weren't into giving profits away.

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Oct 27, 2012 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Early show ' attendees, did they feel riped off .10/30/70 etc.

Lets not forget JGB had a habit of doing the early/late shows that went well into the eighties pretty much till he started filling arenas as well

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